The Commissioner
The Commissioner
Eminem - "Without Me"
This is a Music Video Podcast - or should I say a Podcast about Music Video. From 1995 until 2008 I was a Music Video Commissioner. I worked at A&M Records and then transitioned to Interscope/Geffen/A&M Records in 2000 when A&M was bought by Universal Music Group. I commissioned over 500+ Music Videos during my tenure. This Podcast is an inside look into these videos and the fascinating world of making them - from start to finish. I have worked with artists that include: Eminem, 50 Cent, Dr. Dre, Marilyn Manson, Soundgarden, Sting, Pink Floyd, Mariah Carey, Feist, Vanessa Carlton, The Game, Busta Rhymes, Soulja Boy, Sheryl Crow, Bryan Adams, Feist, Keane, t.A.T.u., Enrique Iglesias, Christina Aguilera, Pink, Mya, Lil’ Kim, Missy Elliot, Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Counting Crows, Ice Cube and Sarah Silverman to name but a few.
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Hello, and welcome to the commissioner. My name is Randy Lawson. This show is focused on music videos at I commissioned over my 12 plus years as a music video commissioner at major labels, let's get into episode one, which is M and M without me Eminem without me was the first single from the M andm show, which was M and M's fourth release in total. I believe he had infinite on his own label or whatever, independent label, then the slim shady EP, the Marsha Mathers LP. And then without me was the first single from the M and M show, which, uh, was released in may of 2002. I had worked peripherally on Stan as when I had started at the label. There was a number of other people that worked on it. So it was kind of a mishmosh. I like to say that was my first one I commissioned because ultimately I was responsible budgetarily, but there was a lot of work that had a goat gone into it. And I can't, as a commissioner take, take credit for that. I did do purple pills and fight music with D 12, which is where I started my relationship with the whole group Marshall and the D 12 guys and Paul Rosenberg and mark LaBelle and everybody within. So for this record, it was, I knew I was gonna be, you know, have the ability to really do what I do. And, um, I remember in the beginning, the, um, we had a, they called us upstairs at the third floor conference room at Interscope, and it was mostly department heads, um, music, video, radio promotion, a and R marketing, publicity, um, international, um, I don't, you know, there was, and it was, it was amazing, like very exciting. So Paul Rosenberg and Jimmy walk in the room, they tell everyone that they have the new M and M record and they're gonna play us some music. So they played us. Um, as I remember, they played cleaning up my closet, sing for the moment business without me and Superman. And, um, you know, they, they ask her opinion and everything. I thought the first single should have been business, cuz it just felt like Dre was on it. And you know, it just, you know, felt like the fir to me felt like the coolest song in the world. I, I don't think it ever got released as a single, but it's still a great song. Um, but I'm not a single picker and I never claim to be a single picker. I could make videos. So ultimately I was told that we were going with, um, without me. So I got the song listened to it a bunch of times to times and um, could never get business set me on the Batman and Robin thing, you know, like where he's, you know, Marshall says something to Dre about, you know, holy whack rappers be, you know? And so that was in my mind, but, but the, without me song also references the Batman and Robin thing. So, um, I immediately in my mind obviously wanted to have Dre and M as Batman and Robin. That was my thought, you know, and, um, I knew Joseph com was the right person. I, you know, I talked to Paul, he had done purple pills and done a great job. Um, and there was not, there was no resistance. Everyone thought that was a good idea. And we just kind of set out, trying to do to come up with the best concept for the video. Um, obviously a lot of the video itself, the lyrics of the song kind of dictate what's in there. The Dick Chaney thing aren't necessarily, um, you know, like we went, that was a, at the time a big deal. It was after nine 11, the, the Iraq war was something that was looming. So we, you know, this is a fun, funny video, but we were able to at least do some satirical things where we did use Dick Chaney in the video, we did use Osama bin Laden, but with some comic relief. So we weren't making a political statement, but just kind of acknowledging that we, that the artist was aware of that stuff. Um, and, uh, so Joseph Conn and I came up with a bunch of ideas I really want because of Batman and Robin, I grew up, you know, uh, watching Batman and Robin and, uh, the early version, the Adam West Burt ward version. So I, you know, a hundred percent knew that I wanted to have them climbing up the wall, um, which ultimately in the video you'll notice it's just Marshall climbing up the wall because Dre doesn't do that stuff. You know, like, not that he wouldn't climb up the wall, just like he was like, I'm Dre, like I would take the stair, you know, there was even part of the joke. Like I wouldn't climb, oh, I'd take the stairs. You know? So I was like, yeah, you're right. And, but Marshall will take it and we'll make it a joke. You know? Um, so which we did is if you watch the video, which I thought was kind of fun, um, this was a little different time than, than today's world. A video was a big deal for everybody, but not everyone could see the videos, the videos, if you didn't get on MTV, chances are, you probably didn't have a hit record. There were obviously exceptions to every rule, but for the most part, you pretty much had to be on MTV to make, get that big crossover because people waited believe it or not, people waited to watch videos. Um, that's not the way it is in today's world. You can just go on YouTube or click anywhere and watch a video whenever you want, listen to whatever song you want. That wasn't the world. In 2002, you could download music that was easy to do, but you couldn't really download videos. There wasn't that there was still a much slower internet. And there wasn't a lot of posting of videos per se. Um, YouTube changed that. And then it became, you know, the ability to do that. And it ultimately killed MTV for what they did in music videos. They went on to do reality television and you know, more power to them, but the video itself was a big deal. So, um, I knew, but there was some, and like I said, some artists, you know, want to, were, you know, you wanted to get their video on MTV. MTV wanted to play an M and M video because he was a big artist. So I knew that we were gonna have a video that was in heavy rotation, right out of the bat. The song was a great song. He mentions MTV in the song. So it just felt like, yeah, this is gonna go on. So I really wanted to make a video that was fun to watch, but that you had to watch more than once AF like when you saw it the first time, you're like, that was great. There's so much, I didn't even see everything. So, and we did achieve that with the graphics and the storylines. We used a, you know, tried to make it like a, a graphic novel, or a comic book with the story itself. And even the graphics that we use. And we had the kind of text up in the top or tells you about the scene. You're about to see and everything. Um, one of my favorite moments in the early on, after we had the video, we had a good conference call with, with M and with, um, Paul and went through the whole thing and he was down, he, you know, wanted to have certain, he wanted to wear certain things in a performance, no problem. He wanted to make sure he wanted to have his brother in it to play him. And he wanted to play his mom on the kind of the Sally Jesse Raphael spoof show. No problem. You know, everything he wanted was not a problem. Cause all his ideas are mostly good ideas. He wanted to be in bed with two hot chicks. Ultimately we got Jenna Jameson and this girl Tiara, those were kind of last minute things with just calling around and seeing he was available. Um, he, you know, totally wanted to be Robin, but he wanted to call himself rat boy, which were like, perfect. Um, so, you know, and like I said, M has great ideas. He, you know, he was obviously dissing people. Um, so, and we'll get into that, but it was just very funny, like the way he wanted to do it. And well, ultimately he did, you know, does, he will do what he wants and you do want them just as a commissioner, you wanna make sure it's done with good taste. And, and he always does that. Um, but I do remember after we had, you know, M and Paul and everyone sign off on it, we had to go to Dre, cuz it was aftermath actually, who is the Cobel and he, you know, had to sign off on it. So Joseph and I went to record one, which is a studio, uh, in Sherman Oaks, on Ventura Boulevard who parked in the back, got through security. And we had to show him the, the storyboards for the video, you know, we're going through this and we're gonna do this and we're gonna do that. And then you and Dre and then, you know, and Dre was like, he thought everything was cool. He was like, what's this Batman and Robin. Like I'm not gonna dress up like Batman. That's ridiculous. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no. You're Dr. Dre. Like, you don't have to dress up like Batman. He's like, well, what am I gonna wear? I was like, I don't know, like a black leather jacket and a black shirt with glasses and jeans, you know, like you're Dre like you totally. And he looked at me like, yeah, that's cool. Okay. I get it. I'm like, yeah, you're Dr. Dre. He's rat, boy you'll come across as Batman and Robin. But obviously, and this is even before the dark night and all that stuff, I'm like, you're cooler than Batman. And he was like, yeah, shut up, Randy. you. You know, but I was honestly feeling like it would be stupid if he dressed up like Batman, cuz that's not who he is. He's Dr. Dre. And he holds this coveted spot in the music business as Dr. Dre. And it was always gonna be Dr. Dre and rat boy, you know? Um, so that was once we got through that, it was all good. And um, we were good to go. So the video itself, um, we shot it in April, 2002. The video visually follows the lyrics of the song, which mocks a number of Em's critics, including um, then vice president, Dick Chaney, um, and his heart problems and his wife Lynn Janney, um, the FCC crier Patrick event, Inc limp biscuit Moby, um, it also lampoons comparisons of him to Elvis Presley as a white man successfully, um, succeeding commercially in like a predominantly black art form, um, and a line also with Texas mom. So we, and obviously you, as you watch the video, you can see all of that in the video played out, um, pretty true to form, I would say, um, the mobi thing, the funny thing about the mobi thing was he used to, you know, he would say nobody listens to techno and I would always say like I do. And he was like, you're nobody Randy. And I was like, oh, so that's that line's about me. But it was just funny because even in 2002, I loved I, if you know anything about me, you know, how much I loved dance music in particular depos in techno. Um, but I, um, uh, loved it back then. And it was just a funny, you know, like, but it was before the EDM movement had exploded in 2008 to 2000 whatever before square lakes, before Diplo, before TTO and Hardwell, even though TTO was out, he was a trans artist and he was kind of underground. Um, he was bigger obviously in Europe than he was in America, but either way it was funny to just have a old thing. But, um, he, uh, he, it was just a, to me, it was like always a funny line and you know, like the way he portrayed it with like mobi sitting in a suit, doing yoga with a keyboard, like, yeah, that's not really how they do dance. He's like, but okay, that's fine. You know, like you guys, you do you, um, the one, the, the main performance per of the video was Marshall on a green screen, in a gray tracksuit. Um, and he did a he's very part, you know, like most good artists, they do a take and then wanna look at it back. So he, you know, we did a number of takes with him on the green screen till he was happy with his performance. And if you'll notice he has a hat on, right. Like, uh, he has a do rag under the hat and then a wool hat over it. Um, but not in everything because after that was over, I just kept saying, I would say to him near the end, like, well, let's do one without the hat. And he's like, why? And I said, because you're M and M and you have the blonde hair and yeah. But you can see me in the video with the blonde hair. I'm like, I know, but this is your main performance take. Let's do one. I used to call it the SHTA let's do one without the SHTA in your head. And he's like, he didn't know what that meant was like, you know, what are you talking about? I'm like the hat take the hat off. So he wouldn't take it off. No, no, no, no, no. He was finally like, I'm good. Like he did, you know, he's a, a consummate professional. So he did, I wanna say 20 takes, it was probably 40, but we spent a long time getting a performance that he was comfortable with, you know, with, in the gray suit, in the gray tracksuit with the, you know, the, um, hat on. And then I was like, why don't we just do two? And he's like, I don't, I'm not gonna use it. I'm like, yeah, you don't have to use it. But if we don't shoot it, we could never use it cuz it's not here. And he's like, okay, I get it. We'll do a couple fine. I'll do do them without the, and he would always mess up the word, you know, whatever, whatever that thing you don't wanna, man. I'm like, yeah, just take off your hat. I keep everything the same. Let's do it. So I think we did one or two takes without the hat. And if you go through the video, you'll notice it's about 70% of the performance as him, without that. Cuz once the hat came off, he was just so relaxed and he just didn't kind of didn't care. Um, he was almost doing his, like a, whatever. I'm just do, I'm doing this for the label guy, you know, but ultimately he's such a consummate professional that he's still great and that's where he's at his best. And that's what I it's just me. I'm disgusting. You know, he was pointing at the camera and doing all these fun, really funny, fun moments and moments and very relaxed. So we ended up using a lot of that performance, which just like I said, that's what this purpose of this show is to kinda give you the insight into that. But all of them are really good and he's obviously a consummate professional and um, he, you know, did a great job throughout the whole thing, but we just funny, we ended up using it without Des schmatta, San schmatta, uh, in the most of the video. Um, the other thing, the real world, which now doesn't seem relevant at all was a very big show at the time and getting P and those guys on, uh, girls on the show and having MB a character in the show, which was on MTV, um, which was kind of the original reality show here in America was kind of a big deal. It doesn't really, um, play up the, uh, play as well over time when I watched it, I was like, oh yeah, the real world. That's right. Yeah. You know, now it's like 16 and pregnant and uh, teen, mom and Jersey shore. And when, you know, the Hills and Laguna beach, all the shows at MTV's known for, but this before that they were known for the real world and it was a very big deal. Um, the climbing up the wall bit, um, I, I love that. Um, we really tried to get a celebrity to open the thing was on the Batman show, the original, they would always have like Sammy Davis Jr. Or Dean Martin or eel bird Humper dink or somebody, you know, Carol Burnett, somebody famous open the window and be like, oh, it's the Cape crusaders and have a conversation with them. Um, we couldn't find a celebrity. So we ended up using Joe Provenzano, who was the first AC for Chris probes, who was the DP on the shoot, Joe pro in his own right. Is a DP now. But back in the day he was so he's actually makes a second. That's his second appearance in the video. He's the first one on the guess, who's back the first time you see it, he's got the suit and tie. And then it goes to like a priest and a rabbi and a they and a Sumo wrestler and a cactus and a bunny and couple people make, make double, double appearances. The bunny kicks Moby at he's in the beginning and then kicks Moby. Um, OB Trice is in the beginning and then also throws down mobi. Um, I actually make a cameo in the video right at the beginning of the video and you see the hand okay. In five or I walk across the control room and then I'm the person that like does the, the clipboard towards the guy who rolls camera and right before it says, oh, we try a real name, no gimmicks. Um, which was funny because when Joseph conceptualized the song, for some reason, he didn't have that part in there, he thought that was just like a part of the, the CD, not the actual video. So he didn't plan to do that. He had planned to do five, four or three, two ones and, and it, the songs start. And then when we got to set that day, we, you know, they, back in the day, this was all shot on film. So you would have a sound package that was made with time code burnt in. So you would have smart slate so you could easily sync it. And that way it was easy to do. And post, when you were in post, you had film that had to be synced with video. I mean, with audio and then you would go to Teleny and do everything to get it into a digital realm. So it was a, a little more complicated than it is today, as far as getting to the editing process. Um, not, not terribly terribly complicated. It was much easier than it had been 10, 15 years prior to that, or even 20 years prior to that. But, um, I remember we were on set and Joseph was like, all right, well, let's play the song back and we'll listen to it. And the beginning part came on and he was like, wait, there's the OB choice parts on the song for the video. I'm like, yeah, of course. So he just had one of his second units guys, shoot, you know, that's why he'll notice like OB on a black and white thing with like just some flashlights on his face<laugh> which wasn't as dis it was just like, he didn't think about, he's like fine, we're gonna lock it into the Dre on the, on the two-way, which is another thing. But I think we got paid to use those Motorola two ways, which were back in the day kind of a big thing, but this was right as it was crossing over into blackberries. Another thing that most of you probably don't even know what they are, but blackberries were kind of two ways in a smartphone environment, which combined your PD. So you had all your contacts, you could send emails easier. It was a phone at the time. It just felt like, oh, this is the greatest thing ever. This is four years, five years before the iPhone. So that was, you know, just a different time, but you used to have a cell phone and a two-way right. And the two-way was how you would text message people. So that's why you see at the beginning of that video, that red Motorola, which I'm pretty sure we got, we got some money from them to use. Um, and it's just funny to see the technology, how it was at the time. It was a cool thing to have, like you had a phone and you, you look a flip phone and a text, a two-way texting Mo device, the Blackberry came out, which kind of combined them together. And then that became the cool thing. And then the iPhone came out and it all, all kinda changed as to everything, but for the better I might add. Um, so yeah, we, we shot for two or three days. I remember one of my favorite scenes of the whole shoot was Dre and M in the car. Um, and I thought, for sure, after just watching the chemistry between the two of them on screen, I was convinced that someone in Hollywood would be like, okay, we need to make a trading places or a buddy movie or some sort of movie with the two of them. Cuz at the time M had just finished, um, filming eight mile. He hadn't, that movie hadn't come out, but after eight mile came out, which was, you know, he played the I'll get into it in other episodes when we were shooting, cleaning up my closet, he played me lose yourself, which was one of those moments of just incredible like, wow, well that's your best song you've ever done. And this is a guy who's made a ton of great songs. So, but, um, I, you know, I just was surprised that that, that never translated because I thought for sure that was a buddy movie waiting to happen. There was just such great chemistry and you can really see it in the car. The two of them just, there was no real like direction or anything. It was just like a roll tape and just let them do their thing, which is just so, so fun to watch. Um, uh, we, as I remember editing the video was really simple. I remember sending it to everybody. Um, we had a pretty short, you know, like commenting, there was a couple shots that Marshall didn't like of this and did blah, blah, you know, performance that we put in a lot more. He liked obviously once he saw it, he liked the performance without the hat. So we ended up putting in more of that, which I never said, I told you, so that is not the way to go about it, but it was like, great. No, it looks, it looks fantastic. I, I don't think I even reminded him of the fact that we had an issue with performance or, you know, with hat or no hat. Um, but, uh, I just remember the post was a kind of a big deal because there was a lot of green screen and that was a little bit more challenging back in the day. And then all the graphics had to go on. So there was a lot of handholding that, um, we had to do Joseph and I just to be like, it's, it's, here's a, like we would have to do a piece and then send it off. Like, this is what it's gonna look like. This is what the piece is. This is the, you know, and so, um, you know, the, the, the final final video got finished. There was a whole curve fle, as I remember with the record getting leaked early. And so I remember promotion being like, I need to send this video in now. And it's like, oh, it's not really ready. You know? And so we did, we sent in a, I would say 85% 90 rough cut, but that last 10% was, you know, all the cool graphics and all the things that went on there. And, and there was just such a toold and thing about the record getting out and they had to release it early and it had to come out on a Thursday instead of a Friday. So it was the first week was split total. None of the stuff that I dealt with, I just made music videos. I don't do sales. I don't do, I ultimately do marketing with visuals, but that wasn't really my, you know, where my rubber met the road. It was me making the best possible video for the most important single at that time. And I do remember when the video finally got on MTV that first time I was in my office and it was like, and now the world premiere of MTV of M and MSS without me, you know, and they played the video and we all watched it and it was just like, oh my God, it looks so good. And then Paul Rosenberg, the manager called me and he was like, yo sausage. He's like that, that video's great. I just wanted to call you and say, congratulations, I get it. I totally get it. He was like, I watched it once and I couldn't see everything. I'm like, well, that's the whole point, you know, like it's gonna get played a thousand times this week. We kind of want people to have to watch it again. He's like, yep, I get it. Thanks sausage. But, you know, he's a very amazing human being, but very matter of fact about it, but he did gimme props. And honestly, if you've ever worked with Paul Rosenberg, you know, that those are you TA you cherish those moments because he's a perfectionist in what he does. And for him to acknowledge something like that was very, very good moment for me. So the video itself obviously was added heavy rotation in MTV. Um, it was, uh, it went on to be nominated for six MTV music, video awards. They were best mail video, which it won best rap video, which it won best direction, which it won for Joseph Conn and video of the year, which was my second video of the year. Um, the first one being lady Marlo with, uh, Christine Aguilera, pink Maya, Lil Kim and Missy Elliot. That's a separate episode that you'll have to tune in for, um, the two that it didn't win was best editing and the viewer's choice awards, which, you know, you can't win.'em all, I guess I literally is a as you listen to that, that is the me reading them off. We didn't win them all. I guess you could win them all. But in this instance, we didn't win them all. We won four of six, which is no 66%, which is pretty good, six 60. It also went on to, um, win the Grammy for best music video in the 2003 Grammy awards, which I recently saw Joseph Kahn who agreed to be on one of these podcasts sometime in the future. Um, and he said, oh, he started me in the business. And I was like, ah, I didn't start you, but he's like, well, you got me my first Grammy. And I was like, I did do that. You know? So that, that was that who won the Grammy. Um, it was obviously a big moment for M um, a big moment for music video and a big moment for me. Well, that does it for episode one of the commissioner. My name is Randy Sasson. I appreciate you listening. They'll be coming out weekly on your favorite formats for podcasts. So until next time I'll leave you with this. Just remember smell is like a wireless version of.